<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1450</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/6/99 6:33:19 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest      Monday, December 6 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1450<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: GT: Trade routes question<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: No go on Nova<BR>
OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Canon Fodder (or, Renegades of Yaskoydray)<BR>
Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)<BR>
Re: Language mix-ups<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1435<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Farewell<BR>
Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1435<BR>
Re: Sci fi films<BR>
RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
Re: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
comedy quote chain again<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:47:18 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
><BR>
>An evil genius in the grad student dorm council here shows a brace of<BR>
>movies every Sunday night; last night's picks were South Park: The Movie<BR>
>and Starship Troopers: The Movie.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
How did they react to South Park? (A much better movie IMHO).<BR>
<BR>
>I take comfort only from the fact that Citizens of the TML, regardless of<BR>
>political viewpoint, are unlikely to take any comfort from this.<BR>
<BR>
Book: very good (4.5 on 1-5 scale)<BR>
Movie: okay (2.5 on 1-5 scale)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:50:10 -0500<BR>
From: jmaclean@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Trade routes question<BR>
<BR>
Terry Mixon wrote:<BR>
> A quick question. I have gotten to the point of doing the minor<BR>
>trade routes for the entire Spinward Marches subsector, having <BR>
>mapped out the major and feeder routes. GT: Far Trader says to <BR>
>use J-2 routes unless a feeder or above would save a jump or more <BR>
>or if it is along an x-boat route. Would a minor route then be <BR>
>able to use a higher jump route created by the major and feeder<BR>
>process? I can't see why it wouldn't but that eventuality was <BR>
>not mentioned. If the route is already in existance, my guess is <BR>
>that a minor route could use it but I wanted to ask for opinions.<BR>
<BR>
The short answer to your question is "yes, minor routes can 'piggyback' on J-3+ routes if doing so reduces the number of jumps needed to reach their destination."<BR>
<BR>
The language on designating routes is rather tortured, I admit.  Part of the problem is that "routes" is used to refer to the amount of trade between two worlds, the path that trade takes, and the total level of traffic between two adjacent worlds.  Inevitably, this leads to confusion.  If there's ever a FT 2e, revamping the vocabulary will be a top priority.<BR>
<BR>
>I sent a message to Jim Maclean but he must be busy and I never <BR>
>got an answer.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I got busy and when I checked my email again my "Traveller" mailfolder had over 2000 messages in it.  I'm still digging out.<BR>
<BR>
Jim MacLean<BR>
Co-Author, GT: Far Trader <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:10:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Eric Henry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You don't like Dougi Nazi?<BR>
<BR>
I do like the media clips in the movie, and the whole psionic SS motif,<BR>
but I thought it seemed awfully ripped-off from the Babylon 5 series.<BR>
When I was shown the PsyCorps (sp?) public service announcement, I nearly<BR>
choked to death laughing.  <BR>
<BR>
All the "I coulda gone to Harvard!" comments in the Starship Troopers film<BR>
went over well here, needless to say.  I thought that the film is a good<BR>
metaphor for grad student life here: swarms of chittering undergraduates<BR>
out to stab & rip you to bits, the occasional bloated brain-sucking<BR>
professor, and we're all fascist goons with good teeth and nice hair.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:13:42 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Brandon Cope wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
> ><BR>
> >An evil genius in the grad student dorm council here shows a brace of<BR>
> >movies every Sunday night; last night's picks were South Park: The Movie<BR>
> >and Starship Troopers: The Movie.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> How did they react to South Park? (A much better movie IMHO).<BR>
<BR>
A disturbing number of us are going around singing or humming many of the<BR>
songs under our breath.  Which seminar to go to to suck up to profs?<BR>
"What Would Brian Boitano do?"  Wheedle out of doing work for a prof?  "La<BR>
Resistance lives on."  Get caught by a prof skipping on work and get<BR>
reamed?  "You're a ___ ____ing uncle-____er".  Etc.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I desperately want to run a Trav campaign based on South Park.<BR>
Suggestions welcomed.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:21:19 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Re: No go on Nova<BR>
<BR>
> From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
<BR>
> "Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
> > Written "Nova" still looks enough like "No va" to convey that<BR>
> > meaning.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes, but "decease" doesn't convey the meaning "de-cease (stop stopping)<BR>
> to English readers.<BR>
<BR>
I think the situation is more akin to seeing "ItWontGo" ,<BR>
"WillNotWork" or "DoesNotWork" as an official automobile brand name.<BR>
Strange, hard to read, but intelligible and not exactly<BR>
confidence-inspiring.  :)<BR>
<BR>
- -Jason<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:19:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>An evil genius in the grad student dorm council here <BR>
>shows a brace of movies every Sunday night; last <BR>
>night's picks were South Park: The Movie and Starship<BR>
<BR>
>Troopers: The Movie.<BR>
<BR>
>But the interesting part was the audience reaction to<BR>
<BR>
>it.  The elite young minds of America and several <BR>
> European countries, our world's future leaders, <BR>
>scientists, analysts, financial whizzes, and military<BR>
<BR>
>brass, thought it was a "really realistic" (sic.) <BR>
<BR>
See my earlier comments about media representations of<BR>
the number and attractiveness of sex partners in other<BR>
careers and/or times.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:16:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon Fodder (or, Renegades of Yaskoydray)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Robert Eaglestone"<BR>
><eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
<BR>
Bravo!  Cheers!! Hurrah!! that was brilliant!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:51:20 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Written "Nova" still looks enough like "No va" to convey that<BR>
>meaning.<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect, that's stretching it. Remember, what's at question in<BR>
this particular legend is specifically that Spanish speakers *saw* the word<BR>
Nova on cars and literally translated in as "no go" and this went on to hurt<BR>
its sales.<BR>
<BR>
Not to sound too politically correct about it, but the story does make<BR>
certain assumptions about the intelligence of Mexicans, or Spanish, or<BR>
whoever the story happens to be told about at a given time. The same<BR>
assumption translated into an English speaking would be absurd. Nobody goes<BR>
to Walmart expecting to buy walls, even though when pronounced it may sound<BR>
like "wall mart".<BR>
<BR>
It's even more absurd when you consider the fact that Nova is a word in the<BR>
Spanish language. You don't even have to speak Spanish, you just need to<BR>
look at the borrowed phrase "bossa nova".<BR>
<BR>
Would a Spanish speaker make a pun concerning the name of the car? I don't<BR>
doubt it. Would Spanish speakers be dissuaded from buying a car because they<BR>
read the name literally? I seriously doubt that.<BR>
<BR>
> > The Chevy Nova did fine in Spanish speaking markets.<BR>
><BR>
> I don't have contradictory or supporting facts.<BR>
<BR>
"The truth is that the Chevrolet Nova's name didn't significantly affect its<BR>
sales: it sold well in both its primary Spanish-language markets, Mexico and<BR>
Venezuela. (Its Venezuelan sales figures actually surpassed GM's<BR>
expectations.)"<BR>
<BR>
Barbara Mikkelson, San Fernando Valley Folklore Society's Urban Legends<BR>
Reference Pages (http://www.snopes.com)<BR>
<BR>
She cites the following as her sources:<BR>
<BR>
Paxman, Andrew.   "Literal Translations Can Sabotage Marketing Campaigns<BR>
Selling in a Second Language."  Business Mexico.   June 1993.<BR>
<BR>
Ricks, David A.   Blunders in International Business. Cambridge, MA:<BR>
Blackwell, 1993. & ISBN 1-55786-414-4   (p. 35).<BR>
<BR>
Letter from Frances R. Hammond, Director Worldwide Economics & Market<BR>
Analysis Staff General Motors Corporation   (5 August 1993).<BR>
<BR>
Having read the Business Mexico article previously, I can say that it<BR>
debunks the myth quite handily, and if I remember correctly it provides<BR>
figures of Mexican sales.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:02:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Language mix-ups<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Chevrolet did change the name for the spanish speaking markets after<BR>
> difficulties in mexico, according to Chevrolet's PA person, during an<BR>
> interview for a show on the history channel. Specifically, the problem was<BR>
> with the Mexican market.<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect, if you can cite a source other than "an interview for<BR>
a show on the history channel", such as approximate airdate, the nature of<BR>
the show, the name of the program itself (especially if it was one of their<BR>
regular shows such as History's Mysteries / In Search of History, Modern<BR>
Marvels, etc.). Alternately, the name of the PA person would be extremely<BR>
helpful.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not asking this to be picky, but in my time as an amateur folklorist,<BR>
I've heard lots of people indicate that a story was indeed true because they<BR>
saw it on television. A popular legend that was circulating at the time I<BR>
was in high school, for example, was that Snapple (or Marlboro) supported<BR>
the Ku Klux Klan with millions of dollars. Frequently cited as a source was<BR>
an episode of Oprah Winfrey where the CEO of Snapple or Marlboro announced<BR>
this proudly to the world.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:20:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1435<BR>
<BR>
From: <Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, I'm not sure about this.  I imagine it will be in SF (I thought<BR>
> aficionados were supposed to balk at the term 'sci-fi'?) *until* we're<BR>
> doing it for real and see how 'fake' banking fighters look.  Kind of like<BR>
> how Buck Rogers spaceships looked ok at the time (I presume) and now look<BR>
> hopelessly dated (or even classic Trek computers etc.).<BR>
<BR>
The SF / sci-fi debate is a hopeless quagmire, as far as I'm concerned. Is<BR>
that debate still going on? I remember a time that calling something SF<BR>
meant that the speaker was trying to elevate whatever they were talking<BR>
about to a higer level than "sci-fi". I thought that the SF (speculative<BR>
fiction) movement sort of petered out, with the exception of heated<BR>
arguments about conventions?<BR>
<BR>
For what it's worth, classic Buck Rogers ships aren't really terribly dated.<BR>
I mean, they have the same basic shape as modern rocket ships...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:57:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> An evil genius in the grad student dorm council here shows a brace of<BR>
> movies every Sunday night; last night's picks were South Park: The Movie<BR>
> and Starship Troopers: The Movie.<BR>
> <BR>
> The merits of the film per se have been discussed already here.  I<BR>
> actually liked the film more the second time I saw it; maybe it's all the<BR>
> lead in the drinking water around here.  But the interesting part was the<BR>
> audience reaction to it.  The elite young minds of America and several<BR>
> European countries, our world's future leaders, scientists, analysts,<BR>
> financial whizzes, and military brass, thought it was a "really realistic"<BR>
> (sic.) movie with a great plot, although they thought the acting was a bit<BR>
> weak.  They were peevish with me for cheering on the bugs and consistently<BR>
> referring to our heros as "the Nazi pigdogs".  They thought that the<BR>
> future world order in the film was "really pretty reasonable" and "I'd<BR>
> sure go for that!" (direct quotes).<BR>
> <BR>
> I take comfort only from the fact that Citizens of the TML, regardless of<BR>
> political viewpoint, are unlikely to take any comfort from this.<BR>
<BR>
I sure as hell don't. But nearly everyone I've talked to about Starship<BR>
Troopers FAILED to take in the REAL meaning of the movie. Damn media<BR>
touts it as a "Kill The Bugs" flick, when it's really a social<BR>
commentary about the state of our society and the general apathy amongst<BR>
the populace. In Heinlein's novel the apathy was even worse, and when<BR>
WWIII took place, the only people who could restore order were the<BR>
military. Hence the fascist society of citizens and civilians. The end<BR>
result being hundreds of fellow movie-goers coming out of the theater<BR>
with slackjaw and a stupored look on their faces as in, "Man, were they<BR>
all wrong about that movie!"<BR>
<BR>
Wake up America, you're dreaming!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:04:47 -0500<BR>
From: jmaclean@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Farewell<BR>
<BR>
Gentlesophonts,<BR>
<BR>
Real Life commitments require that I unsubscribe from the TML.  I've been a member almost without interruption since 1991 and I'll miss the hurly-burly of the list.  The List has grown enormously in membership and traffic since I joined, and I just can't keep up with it all anymore.  I can still be found on SJGames Traveller bulletin boards and reached via email.<BR>
<BR>
Jim MacLean<BR>
Economist, Traveller Fan<BR>
GT: Far Trader co-author<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 17:31:56 -0800<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
Just wanted to post the following...<BR>
<BR>
I have (only) managed to get slightly over 1/6th of the Supplements out<BR>
before I had to stop printing last week and concentrate on finals  and<BR>
packing for my trip (I will be leaving on Thursday). I will resume once I<BR>
return home on Jan 3rd. <BR>
<BR>
Since printing the Supplements up individually has proven to be much more<BR>
time consuming than I anticipated, what I am going to do when I return home<BR>
is print out proof sets to take to the printer. Once I get them back I will<BR>
work on all the remaining sets at once (stapling, folding, packaging and<BR>
mailing). This will likely take up the remainder of January, and I intended<BR>
to have the remaining orders posted by the time school resumes for me in<BR>
early February. <BR>
<BR>
See you all in the next millennium,<BR>
Paul Sanders<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:46:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 01:06 PM 12/6/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>>They thought that the<BR>
>>future world order in the film was "really pretty reasonable" and "I'd<BR>
>>sure go for that!" (direct quotes).<BR>
><BR>
>Fortunately, these are the same worthys that will encircle the bugs with<BR>
>automatic weapons and start firing.<BR>
<BR>
With a Sergeant who will see movement on a ridge and not alert his<BR>
formation!!  Aiigghh!!  That movie was so BAD!!  Must.. control.. fist..<BR>
of...Death...<BR>
<BR>
I saw it at a con, and when they had finally reached Fort Zindernuef, and<BR>
found that the Bugs ate brains, about three peole yelled "They're going to<BR>
starve on this bunch!"  All of us were infantry.  Two Army, one Marine.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:48:56<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 04:13 PM 12/6/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:  I desperately want to run a Trav campaign based on South Park.<BR>
>Suggestions welcomed.<BR>
<BR>
OhmyGod, they killed Strephon!  You BASTARDS!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:53:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)<BR>
<BR>
I remember attending a lecture on advertising at UCSF (open series, some<BR>
really great stuff.)<BR>
<BR>
The lecturer made all the usual points about sexuality and hidden messages;<BR>
but then he pointed out that sometimes a product can succeed in an<BR>
overwhelming fashion despite a poor name or promotion..<BR>
<BR>
After all, how many men want to be linked to the words "Microsoft"?<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:24:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1435<BR>
<BR>
At 06:48 PM 12/6/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, I'm not sure about this.  I imagine it will be in SF (I thought<BR>
>aficionados were supposed to balk at the term 'sci-fi'?) *until* we're<BR>
>doing it for real and see how 'fake' banking fighters look.  Kind of like<BR>
>how Buck Rogers spaceships looked ok at the time (I presume) and now look<BR>
>hopelessly dated (or even classic Trek computers etc.).<BR>
<BR>
But everything comes around..<BR>
<BR>
In 1993, Kirsten and I were sitting in the auditorium at the end of opening<BR>
ceremonies for ConFrancisco, that year's World Science Fiction Convention.<BR>
We who stayed had been promised an interesting development in space flight,<BR>
so the room was wall to wall NASA freaks.  As we had already seen Arthur C.<BR>
Clarke get eaten by the Sri Lankan Death Chihuahua, anything was possible.<BR>
<BR>
This new break-through has called Delta Clipper Experimental, or DC-X.<BR>
After the project director gave us a quick history of project, the light<BR>
dimmed, and video tape rolled.<BR>
<BR>
We saw a boxy little cone sitting in the desert, and heard the obligatory<BR>
countdown.  At liftoff, with very little fuss, the cone left the pad, went<BR>
up about 200 feet, and stopped.<BR>
<BR>
Stopped!  Hung there.  As in the way that bricks don't hang there.  There<BR>
was this spaceship happily floating above the desert floor.  Doing things<BR>
that usually have you looking for the string or the bluescreen box, but it<BR>
got better..<BR>
<BR>
After a few seconds of defying physics, the cone tilted a bit and started<BR>
drifting to the left.  Just like any other multi-ton balloon you've ever<BR>
seen, until it obediently stopped at it's controller's whim.<BR>
<BR>
Then it started to land, tail first, and God as my witness four little<BR>
spindly legs came out!  Don Stewart call your office!  Every 1950's skiffy<BR>
epic was avenged that day in the Nevada desert!  The DC-X comes down in as<BR>
little fuss as it ascended, and at that the crowd went nuts.  We were on<BR>
our feet cheering and clapping, demanding that they run the video again<BR>
(they did, nearly twenty times!) at which point Jerry Pournelle grabbed the<BR>
microphone and proclaimed:<BR>
<BR>
"This is spaceflight the way GOD and ROBERT HEINLEIN *meant* it to be!"<BR>
<BR>
Which sent us off again.  There wasn't a dry eye in the house as we watched<BR>
this two minute long tape.<BR>
<BR>
I had the chance to speak with one of the McDonnell-Douglas reps, and he<BR>
asked my why we had had such an emotional reaction to what was in reality<BR>
just an initial test?  "Because it's real" was the best reply I could give<BR>
him.<BR>
<BR>
So don't be so quick to discard those cliches of yesteryear.. Today I saw<BR>
an add for a cellphone you wear on your wrist...just like Dick Tracy's.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"<BR>
- - Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:23:02 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Sci fi films<BR>
<BR>
On 6 Dec 99, at 2:59, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The right answer is:<BR>
> <BR>
> Neither.  A sergeant is an omnipresent force, the magnitude and<BR>
> proximity of which is directly proportional to the degree to which the<BR>
> unfortunate private has screwed up; as such, sergeants are neither saluted<BR>
> nor painted.<BR>
> <BR>
> Y'know, that whole exchange might be an amusing color quote for GT:<BR>
> Ground Forces....<BR>
<BR>
I always liked this definition of a Sergeant: "A kind of over above <BR>
under thing."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:43:04 -0600<BR>
From: Mark A Nordstrand <markn@visi.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
> An evil genius in the grad student dorm council here shows a brace of<BR>
> movies every Sunday night; last night's picks were South Park: The Movie<BR>
> and Starship Troopers: The Movie.<BR>
<BR>
> The merits of the film per se have been discussed already here.  I<BR>
> actually liked the film more the second time I saw it; maybe it's all the<BR>
> lead in the drinking water around here.  But the interesting part was the<BR>
> audience reaction to it.  The elite young minds of America and several<BR>
> European countries, our world's future leaders, scientists, analysts,<BR>
> financial whizzes, and military brass, thought it was a "really realistic"<BR>
> (sic.) movie with a great plot, although they thought the acting was a bit<BR>
> weak.  They were peevish with me for cheering on the bugs and consistently<BR>
> referring to our heros as "the Nazi pigdogs".  They thought that the<BR>
> future world order in the film was "really pretty reasonable" and "I'd<BR>
> sure go for that!" (direct quotes).<BR>
<BR>
> I take comfort only from the fact that Citizens of the TML, regardless of<BR>
> political viewpoint, are unlikely to take any comfort from this.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but what about Starship Troopers?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, come on, some one had to make this remark<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:04:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
> An evil genius in the grad student dorm council here shows a brace of<BR>
> movies every Sunday night; last night's picks were South Park: The Movie<BR>
> and Starship Troopers: The Movie.<BR>
[snippage]<BR>
> But the interesting part was the<BR>
> audience reaction to it.  The elite young minds of America and several<BR>
> European countries, our world's future leaders, scientists, analysts,<BR>
> financial whizzes, and military brass, thought it was a "really realistic"<BR>
> (sic.) movie with a great plot, although they thought the acting was a bit<BR>
> weak.<BR>
<BR>
After watching the Brady Bunch as a yout', I think South Park is probably a<BR>
bit more realistic, too!<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:11:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: J. Paul Sanders <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
> See you all in the next millennium,<BR>
<BR>
You're going away for thirteen months?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:15:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
<BR>
You can map it, easily. In my first sci fi game I<BR>
gmed, when I had no copies of traveller to either<BR>
confuse or inspire me, I simply set one star as the<BR>
zero point, and plotted out the others on the page<BR>
(giving their co-ordinates as +/- X parsecs coreward<BR>
from capital, +/- Y parsecs spinward from capital.<BR>
Then, next to the system names I put a number, +/- Y<BR>
parsecs above or below this plane. Yes, the choice of<BR>
what is plus and what is minus is completely<BR>
arbitrary, but so what? SO is longitude and latitude,<BR>
having 360 degrees in a circle, the centigrade scale,<BR>
etc. It's all arbitrary, but so long as everybody<BR>
knows the arbitrary rules, it doesn't matter. <BR>
<BR>
By old Pythagoras' rule, you can easily find the<BR>
distance between two stars. Yes, Jump-x getting to how<BR>
many stars? would be a problem. But I never had that<BR>
problem, because the star drives I hypothesised would<BR>
let them travel as many parsecs as they liked, it just<BR>
took longer, and the greater the distance the greater<BR>
the chance of misjump. And they could jump to emty<BR>
space if they really wanted to (and oftne did to<BR>
escape pursuers, a la millenium falcon).<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the PCs themselves will use some different<BR>
system, but just as we don't know how their jump<BR>
drives actually work, we don't have to know the exact<BR>
astrogational system used by them. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:25:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: comedy quote chain again<BR>
<BR>
> > > Think of it this way. Imperial ships are clean<BR>
> because they have lots of<BR>
> > > crew and troops on board. When not busy, they<BR>
> polish, they shine, they<BR>
> > > are kept busy by officers.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > "If it moves, salute it.  If it doesn't move,<BR>
> clean it and paint it."<BR>
> <BR>
> So, is a sergeant a moving or non-moving object?<BR>
> (Hint: there is no right answer).<BR>
> <BR>
"Don't call me, 'sir', I work for a living!"<BR>
<BR>
"A peacetime army is run on bullshit and brasso"<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:58:19 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
On 6 Dec 99, at 15:46, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> With a Sergeant who will see movement on a ridge and not alert his<BR>
> formation!!  Aiigghh!!  That movie was so BAD!!  Must.. control.. fist..<BR>
> of...Death...<BR>
<BR>
And an officer who shoots his own men, when he could've nailed the bug <BR>
and gone and recovered his man. And they send their sigs to high ground <BR>
with no security. Sigs may be a lower form of life, but they do have <BR>
their uses (carrying heavy radios and soaking sniper fire, for <BR>
starters).<BR>
<BR>
When I first saw it my friends (not ex-military) had to physically shut <BR>
me up in the theatre. They were just _so_ incompentent. Next time I saw <BR>
it I looked upon it as a comedy - much better that way.<BR>
 <BR>
> I saw it at a con, and when they had finally reached Fort Zindernuef, and<BR>
> found that the Bugs ate brains, about three peole yelled "They're going to<BR>
> starve on this bunch!"  All of us were infantry.  Two Army, one Marine. --<BR>
<BR>
Like I said -a comedy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:25:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
Swordy (Colin Michael) <swordworlder@clinic.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: J. Paul Sanders <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
> > See you all in the next millennium,<BR>
><BR>
> You're going away for thirteen months?<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad to know that someone else out there knows how<BR>
to keep time.  You know, I blame it on public schools (and<BR>
the advertsers).  It's just this sort of muddy thinking that<BR>
would lead to a *year* zero (0) in 3I.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1450<BR>
***********************************<BR>
<BR>
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>
<BR>
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".<BR>
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>
"local-traveller":<BR>
<BR>
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>
<BR>
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>
in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>
<BR>
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR>
</XMP></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0f0f0f" BACK="#fffffe" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
<BR>
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>
Return-Path: <owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Received: from  rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb03.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:33:19 -0500<BR>
Received: from  lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (v66.4) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:32:55 -0500<BR>
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA59545;<BR>
	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:32:06 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:31:28 -0500<BR>
Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA59495<BR>
	for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:31:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:31:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>
Message-Id: <199912070231.VAA59495@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1450<BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<BR>
</HTML>
